WWE Raw Supershow Live Discussion - April 16th, 2012

[Fuji Vice]

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This week, Mark Henry gets his third shot at the WWE Title. In the O2 Arena in London, WWE Champion CM Punk will have no easy way out after retaining his title twice via DQ and Count Out in recent weeks. Henry believed that he was screwed out of the WWE Title, which led to John Laurinaitis making this rematch with no disqualifications. With CM Punk's mind focused on Chris Jericho's personal attacks, can the WWE Champion remain focused enough to defeat the World's Strongest Man? Or will we crown a new WWE Champion?

Last week, John Cena was left bloodied during a brawl with his Extreme Rules opponent, Brock Lesnar and for the second week in a row was left lying at the hands of an F-5. What's next in the feud between these two legendary wrestlers? Also, will Chris Jericho have any more words for the WWE Champion? With Extreme Rules just 2 weeks away, expect to see more build up and matches announced as WWE prepares to go extreme. Who will Lord Tensai wrestle this week? Will the fans in the UK get to see the unique team of Santino and Brodus Clay again? Find out all this and more on Raw Supershow ...

Last year's show in England was memorable for one of the greatest things to ever happen on Raw in its entire history. If anyone is struggling to remember, its R-Truth's bomb heel turn where he lit the cigarette and said "Y'all wanna' talk 'bout me" while the fans in the audience pleaded with him to think about the children. Too great.

Anyhow, hopefully this show delivers as well. The crowd across the pond are usually pretty lively, so let's hope for that tonight as well as another kick ass CM Punk/Mark Henry match.

[CrimsonTide]

It's only taken me about 20 years to come around, but I am turning into a Mark Henry fan.

[NovaRoad]

I really hope Cena continues to be brawltastic this week, because I think how he's acting right now is much more interesting than his normal schtick.

[Sabretooth]

I just read the spoilers for raw tonight. It looks like a really good show. I'm not gonna post them here though. If you want to read them, go to pwpix.net. The ending was as shocking as fuck

[Death Dealer]

Rasslin is better without spoilers.

[Sabretooth]

Rasslin is better without spoilers.

Well raw usually isn't taped. Im too tempted to read spoilers when they're present

[King James]

I missed last week unfortunately... not missing this week fortunately enough. I'm pumped..

[Fuje Vise]

Five minutes ass clowns.

[King James]

Starting strong, aye.

[Sabretooth]

Sweet. What a way to kick off the show

[W-olf]

Damn why did I read em , oh well saved myself 2 hours catch ya tomorrow lol.

[Sabretooth]

I love how Henry doesn't see Punk coming

[Sabretooth]

Damn why did I read em , oh well saved myself 2 hours catch ya tomorrow lol.

are you actually not gonna be here

[King James]

Pretty violent slam by The World's Strongest Man there. I almost wouldn't mind Henry having a WWE title reign.

[Sabretooth]

Pretty violent slam by The World's Strongest Man there. I almost wouldn't mind Henry having a WWE title reign.

Yeah but we all know who's gonna win

[Sabretooth]

And I actually thought punk was gonna hit him in the head. Fuck PG

[Fuje Vise]

Damn why did I read em , oh well saved myself 2 hours catch ya tomorrow lol.


are you actually not gonna be here

I second the kid.

I can't believe we're opening with this!

[King James]

"Thunderous chair, Mark Henry into the cover" - Michael Cole, just now

...even though CM Punk was pinning him anyways.

[#HOLLER]

CM Punk can really make Mark Henry look good.

[Sabretooth]

Looks like this crowd is as good as the Miami crowd

[Sabretooth]

CM Punk can really make Mark Henry look good.

mark is good.

And god I love that roundhouse kick

[King James]

Vips, not to start an argument, but the chair shots were banned mostly to prevent concussions, leading to Chris Benoit-like health conditions. But yeah, I don't mind chair shots to the head either. They might try one on Extreme Rules if we're lucky.

Anyways, I can see these growing chants into long 'oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh's becoming annoying before the night's over.

[#HOLLER]

CM Punk is a genius.

[Fuje Vise]

Epic way to retain the title. Elbow Drop with the chair. Nice spot.

[Sabretooth]

ELBOW DROP WITH THE CHAIR. CM PUNK WINS.

Benoit is a rare case. Plenty of men have taken head shots. Benoit is the only one to go off the deep end. Hell look at Mick Foley

[Sabretooth]

Man Chris Jericho is such a douchebag :lol:

[Sabretooth]

I love how wwe thinks adding Chicago makes it so special.

Punk just had a street fight

[Fuje Vise]

ViperRKO The EC Benoit's flying head butts and other crazy high risk spots contributed a lot if not most of his problems but we're not getting into that here.

[#HOLLER]

I love this storyline between Jericho and Punk. It's money.

[Sabretooth]

11:55. Punk in jeans and sweatshirt and hat going into a bar.

If a fish and chips chant starts happening I'll mark

[King James]

I wasn't going into anything, I was just saying that WWE don't prefer unprotected head shots as a result of Benoit, as well as guys like Chris Nowinski and other people who suffered remarkable damage from them.

Oh well anyways, that was a rather unusual promo in general.

[Fuje Vise]

US title in the UK! :lol:

[Sabretooth]

That was so good right there. Jericho just cut out. Man this guy really is a perfect heel. His speech, facial expressions, mannerisms, and demeanor are all spot on.

[Sabretooth]

I wasn't going into anything, I was just saying that WWE don't prefer unprotected head shots as a result of Benoit, as well as guys like Chris Nowinski and other people who suffered remarkable damage from them.

Oh well anyways, that was a rather unusual promo in general.


Nowinski wasn't exactly the best wrestler the wwe has ever seen. Chris Benoit did unprotected flying headbutts. What do you think it does to your brain slamming it into the ground or your opponents knees (when they counter). It wasn't the chair shots that did him in

[Fuje Vise]

Nowinski wasn't exactly the best wrestler the wwe has ever seen. Chris Benoit did unprotected flying headbutts. What do you think it does to your brain slamming it into the ground or your opponents knees (when they counter). It wasn't the chair shots that did him in

We're not getting into this here. The EC please don't respond.

[Sabretooth]

I love R Truth. He was a good heel but that was hilarious.

[Fuje Vise]

Is this what Truth has resorted to? For shame.

[King James]

Settle down, Brandon. It's not big deal.

Anyways, that was a sweet Santino bit actually.

I also appreciate David Otunga's Harvard background being mentioned in his entrance. That's you next US Champion right there, fellas.

[Sabretooth]

Look at Otunga's body. He makes me so jealous. It's not fair like at all

[Sabretooth]

Settle down, Brandon. It's not big deal.

Anyways, that was a sweet Santino bit actually.

I also appreciate David Otunga's Harvard background being mentioned in his entrance. That's you next US Champion right there, fellas.


I really hope David Otunga wins the title

[Fuje Vise]

Settle down, Brandon. It's not big deal.

Anyways, that was a sweet Santino bit actually.

I also appreciate David Otunga's Harvard background being mentioned in his entrance. That's you next US Champion right there, fellas.You don't remember the Benoit debates that derailed every thread in existence a few years ago. Shit, even recently.

[Fuje Vise]

That was the worst cover I've ever seen in my life.

[Sabretooth]

You don't remember the Benoit debates that derailed every thread in existence a few years ago. Shit, even recently.

Well this isn't a big discussion on Benoit.

How long has this site been around

[Sabretooth]

That was the worst cover I've ever seen in my life.

Yeah David Otunga's cover was really stupid

[Fuje Vise]

Well this isn't a big discussion on Benoit.

How long has this site been around

Wasn't talking about here specifically.

[King James]

Tensai is up next it would appear. I hope things pick up for him.

[Sabretooth]

Lord Tensai is really awesome. Hopefully he'll get a title shot in the near future

[Sabretooth]

Lesnar's head looks really flat in college :lol:

[Fuje Vise]

Brock Lesnar is 100% right. John Cena is in the spot he is today because he left.

[Fuje Vise]

It's too early for this match IMHO.

[Sabretooth]

That was a really awesome promo by Lesnar. All 100% true

[Fuje Vise]

Again? Nice knowing ya Zack.

[Sabretooth]

It's too early for this match IMHO.

exactly. I thought Brock's first match would be at summerslam. I sure wasn't expecting this

[King James]

Lesnar should shave his head like in college, then grow out his caveman beard. He'd look ferocious, for real.

[Sabretooth]

Again? Nice knowing ya Zack.

Screw it. Ryder is never getting a push again. I give up. Wwe could have gone far with him. But nope he's just a lower mid card guinea pig to heels

[Sabretooth]

Lesnar should shave his head like in college, then grow out his caveman beard. He'd look ferocious, for real.

He looked like a fag with his shaved head

[Fuje Vise]

Lesnar should shave his head like in college, then grow out his caveman beard. He'd look ferocious, for real.

Isn't Bryan already doing that? And even EY to a lesser extent. I think the beard is overplayed now.

[Sabretooth]

Isn't Bryan already doing that? And even EY to a lesser extent. I think the beard is overplayed now.

Yeah that's great. Compare a 5'10 210 pound man to a 6'5 280 pound man

[Sabretooth]

Pipe to the head :lol:

[King James]

Looked badass to me. Plus, he was only in college. He looks more mature now, it wouldn't be an issue, imo

Anyways, masked Kane is a real let down for as many people who wanted him to put the mask back on.

[King James]

Brock's beard was better than Bryan's. EY's is the best in the biz, but yeah.... Brock's was better.

GRANTED, D-Bry does look better with a beard, than without.

Still...

[Sabretooth]

Looked badass to me. Plus, he was only in college. He looks more mature now, it wouldn't be an issue, imo

Anyways, masked Kane is a real let down for as many people who wanted him to put the mask back on.

I don't consider killing someone's dad then hitting the son in the head with a pipe a letdown.

[Sabretooth]

WWE really is hyping the fuck out of No Way Out. It better be amazing.

And this is a pretty good promo. Can these fans stop fucking whating him

[Sabretooth]

AJ!!!! Daniel Bryan!!!!! YES YES YES

[#HOLLER]

I don't know what to think of this... @YesLock.

[Sabretooth]

That was the greatest thing ever. #YesLock

[Fuje Vise]

Yeah that's great. Compare a 5'10 210 pound man to a 6'5 280 pound man

What the fuck does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The YES Lock is the greatest thing of all time.

[Sabretooth]

Oh I just saw him attack Mr Kennedy

[King James]

I too enjoy this name change. I never thought the LeBell Lock was a fitting name, as the reference was above most fans anyways (including me for a while). The Yes Lock is a lot more marketable, and fitting. Also, where's Tensai? I want to see him in action tonight!

[Sabretooth]

I too enjoy this name change. I never thought the LeBell Lock was a fitting name, as the reference was above most fans anyways (including me for a while). The Yes Lock is a lot more marketable, and fitting. Also, where's Tensai? I want to see him in action tonight!


Considering Tensai cut a promo, I think he'll be in the main event

[King James]

I don't consider killing someone's dad then hitting the son in the head with a pipe a letdown.

You have to agree that outside of this, he's been very disappointing... His lackluster feud with Cena, crushing Ryder and forcing him down the card, and even his pre-Mania feud with Orton was a bit lacking. He's just now becoming good again as far as I'm concerned, and not even that good. Not like Chris Jericho good, or even Mark Henry good. But he's ok.

[Sabretooth]

Well Lesnar is a full fledged heel. I'm happy about that.

[King James]

Considering Tensai cut a promo, I think he'll be in the main event

Congrats on reading spoilers, bro.

[Sabretooth]

You have to agree that outside of this, he's been very disappointing... His lackluster feud with Cena, crushing Ryder and forcing him down the card, and even his pre-Mania feud with Orton was a bit lacking. He's just now becoming good again as far as I'm concerned, and not even that good. Not like Chris Jericho good, or even Mark Henry good. But he's ok.

No one is Chris Jericho good. As for Mark Henry I think he's on the same level. As for Ryder it was good for Kane bad for Ryder. He broke Ryder's back.


Wow John how dare you fuck up the good name of the end of an era match. It wasn't about you you prick.

[Sabretooth]

Congrats on reading spoilers, bro.

Thanks bro

[King James]

Lesnar's gonna have a good run here in the WWE, I can feel it. I hope we get at least two WM matches out of him before he decides to exit again, or before WWE releases him, or whatever happens. I have a feeling WWE will use him as much as they can though, I'm pretty sure.

[Sabretooth]

No I think a japenese death match is more brutal

[King James]

Johnny has theme music? Did this happen last week, or is this just a one night gig?

[Fuje Vise]

Extreme Rules tonight? Hot damn.

[Sabretooth]

Lesnar's gonna have a good run here in the WWE, I can feel it. I hope we get at least two WM matches out of him before he decides to exit again, or before WWE releases him, or whatever happens. I have a feeling WWE will use him as much as they can though, I'm pretty sure.

remember he agreed to a select # of dates.


I swear to god if they say "end of an era" again not relating to Taker/HHH, I'm gonna kill someone

[Fuje Vise]

Johnny has theme music? Did this happen last week, or is this just a one night gig?

I heard it last week. I guess it's to celebrate his new permanent position.

[Sabretooth]

Johnny has theme music? Did this happen last week, or is this just a one night gig?

Um it's been like three weeks

[Sabretooth]

Is next week the draft? They're not advertising it

[King James]

No I think a japenese death match is more brutal

For example, the Fire Stone Deathmatch in Big Japan.

John Cena clearly only thinks within the confines of the WWE.

[Sabretooth]

For example, the Fire Stone Deathmatch in Big Japan.

John Cena clearly only thinks within the confines of the WWE.

That was a good promo considering the garbage he's spewed at us in the past

[Sabretooth]

Hey Kofi when the referee asks you if you want to give up, your gonna say YES YES YES

[King James]

That was a good promo considering the garbage he's spewed at us in the past

Well, I'm a Cena fan so I do like his promos. Still, I saw some good emotion in that one.

[Sabretooth]

Well, I'm a Cena fan so I do like his promos. Still, I saw some good emotion in that one.

No because now he's serious I want to kick some ass Cena. The Rock and Brock Lesnar woke him up. Before it was all about making stupid jokes and playing to the kids. Now Cena is legit pissed and wants to kill someone

[King James]

I don't see how what I said contradicted that, but I get where you're coming from. By the way, I see you down there Mitch... get in this LD! It's fucking lonely in here tonight..

[Sabretooth]

See they're not billing it as the draft. They're just saying a special three hour event

[King James]

Is it supposed to be a draft? I honestly don't know.

[Sabretooth]

I don't see how what I said contradicted that, but I get where you're coming from. By the way, I see you down there Mitch... get in this LD! It's fucking lonely in here tonight..

yeah I want to thank you and Brandon for being here along with me. Even if its only 3 people, we can still have an LD. So thanks

[Fuje Vise]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

The chants in the match are awesome.

[King James]

It's a sad day when Kofi is called "a great veteran"...

[Sabretooth]

Is it supposed to be a draft? I honestly don't know.

Honestly I'm gonna say no. They would have advertised it as such. I mean it could be a surprise but it'd be kind of wierd to not advertise it then when its on just say ok here's the draft. It's kind of wierd that the 3 hour raw is in the timeslot of the draft. But I'm gonna say no

[Sabretooth]

YES LOCK!!!!!!

[Fuje Vise]

Yes! Yes! Yes! Bryan wins again. #YesLock

[Sabretooth]

What the fuck is AJ doing. Bryan can't give you as much love as I can.

SHEAMUS

[King James]

D-Bry looks like a warlock, for some odd reason.

[Sabretooth]

What could Johnny Ace possibly have up his sleeve.

"Pour Favor"

[Fuje Vise]

There's still brands? News to me.

[King James]

Smackdown is still a brand, for the most part. It's just Raw where everything goes.

[Fuje Vise]

It's a sad day when Kofi is called "a great veteran"...

Kofi's a veteran? Kofi's great? What? This is also news to me.

[King James]

According to Michael Cole, Kofi is both of those things.

[Fuje Vise]

According to Michael Cole, Kofi is both of those things.

Michael is special. We all know this.

[Sabretooth]

BRODUS CLAY. FUNKASAURUS. YES YES YES YES

[The Viper]

Listen to that pop!

[Fuje Vise]

Can someone call my local cable operator?

[Sabretooth]

Michael is special. We all know this.

I think he has personal help around his house. He can't function properly

[Sabretooth]

Listen to that pop!

Well hello apex

[King James]

Man, I love Vickie Guerrero!

And Dolph Ziggler!

And Jack Swagger!

AND Brodus Clay!

[Fuje Vise]

Is Ziggler does the job, I'll drown a puppy.

[Sabretooth]

That was awesome. I love Brodus. I don't care what you say Brandon. Brodus Clay is awesome

[King James]

That shouldn't have been a DQ, unless Jack actually managed to hit Brodus, which he didn't.

Unless Lex Luger's title win against Hulk Hogan in WCW was a fluke. I'm guessing only #HEEL will recall the events of that match. Quite frankly, I don't know how I remember that.

But then again, I guess I shouldn't consult WCW about the rules and regulations of wrestling.

Nevermind.

[Sabretooth]

Fuck you #Hoeski

[Sabretooth]

No you fucking cum swallow. Andre The Giant was in the first class

[King James]

Little late on this tribute, it seems?

[Fuje Vise]

That shouldn't have been a DQ, unless Jack actually managed to hit Brodus, which he didn't.

Unless Lex Luger's title win against Hulk Hogan in WCW was a fluke. I'm guessing only #HEEL will recall the events of that match. Quite frankly, I don't know how I remember that.

But then again, I guess I shouldn't consult WCW about the rules and regulations of wrestling.

Nevermind.
Actually WCW had a pretty stern set of rules brought over from the NWA for many years. It wasn't until later when they changed them up.

As for disqualification you are correct, it shouldn't have been a DQ unless their was actual contact.

And I do remember that match. His reign was so important in the history of WCW! :lol:

[Sabretooth]

That was sad. Rest In Peace Chief. You will forever be missed

[Sabretooth]

Little late on this tribute, it seems?

can you fucking appreciate a tribute and not complain. That being said wwe had a tribute a few weeks ago

[King James]

Actually WCW had a pretty stern set of rules brought over from the NWA for many years. It wasn't until later when they changed them up.

As for disqualification you are correct, it shouldn't have been a DQ unless their was actual contact.

And I do remember that match. His reign was so important in the history of WCW! :lol:

Well yeah, up until around '96 when things got sent into tail spin. I believe Luger won the title in '98 right? Yeah, it was pretty much 'anything goes' by that point.

A shade of things to come I guess...

[The Viper]

can you fucking appreciate a tribute and not complain. That being said wwe had a tribute a few weeks ago

Look who's talking about complaining. For a 9 year old, you have a nasty mouth.

[King James]

can you fucking appreciate a tribute and not complain. That being said wwe had a tribute a few weeks ago

u mad?

Lol, I didn't insult the tribute itself, I just don't remember seeing the tribute until now. I probably wasn't paying attention, I admit. No need to get pissed though, kid. We were having a perfectly good LD for a while there..

[Sabretooth]

Look who's talking about complaining. For a 9 year old, you have a nasty mouth.

Get used to it

[The Viper]

Get used to it

lololololololololol

[Sabretooth]

u mad?

Lol, I didn't insult the tribute itself, I just don't remember seeing the tribute until now. I probably wasn't paying attention, I admit. No need to get pissed though, kid. We were having a perfectly good LD for a while there..

Ok I'm calm back to the show. Wow have the tag champs get squashed. Wonderful. I guarantee you Show and Khali are going to win the titles at some point. Big Show will be a dual champion and Khali will be champion. Oh god

[King James]

I'm liking this Abraham Washington angle. I actually enjoyed him in his ECW run.

Also, Rosa's hot, Khali sucks, and Primo and Epico are pretty sweet.

[Sabretooth]

Fuck the tag division. I give up. I'm done. I used to have hope that the division would be revived. I've cost hope

[Fuje Vise]

Well yeah, up until around '96 when things got sent into tail spin. I believe Luger won the title in '98 right? Yeah, it was pretty much 'anything goes' by that point.

A shade of things to come I guess...
1997 actually and no, that was generally how DQ rules where back then. WWE plays loose with the rules these days. I've seen matches where guys would get in the ring and no DQ and then matches like these.

[Sabretooth]

I'm liking this Abraham Washington angle. I actually enjoyed him in his ECW run.

Also, Rosa's hot, Khali sucks, and Primo and Epico are pretty sweet.

True, true, true, and true :lol:

[HEEL Blazy]

No you fucking cum swallow. Andre The Giant was in the first class

That wasn't really a class it was no ceremony or anything. Five days after he died that make a hall of fame and put him into it. The first time they did any hall of fame stuff was next year. I'm not saying Andre's was less important but it's not really much of a class when it's one person.

[Sabretooth]

1997 actually and no, that was generally how DQ rules where back then. WWE plays loose with the rules these days. I've seen matches where guys would get in the ring and no DQ and then matches like these.

Usually when the match is important the referee doesn't DQ

[King James]

That was a useless match if I ever saw one. Feeding your tag champs to two worn out giants is... quite angering.

I mean, Show's ok but his use is running out, and Khali downright sucks. Neither of them needed a win, and that match progressed just about nothing (other than AW, but he could have appeared for any match). Pretty shitty in general right there.

[Sabretooth]

That wasn't really a class it was no ceremony or anything. Five days after he died that make a hall of fame and put him into it. The first time they did any hall of fame stuff was next year. I'm not saying Andre's was less important but it's not really much of a class when it's one person.

Doesnt matter. It's still considered the class of 1993

[Sabretooth]

That was a useless match if I ever saw one. Feeding your tag champs to two worn out giants is... quite angering.

I mean, Show's ok but his use is running out, and Khali downright sucks. Neither of them needed a win, and that match progressed just about nothing (other than AW, but he could have appeared for any match). Pretty shitty in general right there.

Wwe probably doesn't want Show and Khali to be champions so they're just going to act like the match never happened and not give Show and Khali at tag title match. WWE always backs themselves into a corner

[King James]

1997 actually and no, that was generally how DQ rules where back then. WWE plays loose with the rules these days. I've seen matches where guys would get in the ring and no DQ and then matches like these.

I wasn't really calling out WCW, but things did get progressively sketchier from 1996 onward... That's all I'm saying..

[Fuje Vise]

Fuck yeah! Tensei and Cena will kill each other.

[HEEL Blazy]

Doesnt matter. It's still considered the class of 1993

More like the 1993 inductee, they might mean a class being you know more then 1 person.

[The Viper]

This should be fucking good.

[King James]

I think Tensai could use a little more hair on his body. His pasty whiteness is not flattering.

[Sabretooth]

Yep Cena's fucked. I love Lord Tensai. One word defines him... Cool

[King James]

Tensai no sold the fuck out that suplex.

[Sabretooth]

Fuck yeah! Tensei and Cena will kill each other.

now that Cena is back in serious mode yeah.

And I can't believe they just said end if an era again. No respect for two of the best wrestlers in this business

[Sabretooth]

Steel steps. Oh yeah

[Sabretooth]

That nerve hold looks legit painful

[Fuje Vise]

Is the manager a wrestler?

[King James]

I like Tensai's gauntlets..

[Sabretooth]

Is the manager a wrestler?

He's in FCW

[Sabretooth]

I like Tensai's gauntlets..

This guy is really awesome. I'm really glad he came back

[King James]

So, he's like Ricardo, basically.

[Fuje Vise]

That senton would make me into a pancake.

[King James]

ending ftw.

[Fuje Vise]

Green Mist! Tensei wins!

[Sabretooth]

Did he just... Like... Win. I'm speechless honestly. Wwe is really trying to make Cena vulnerable and replaceable

[King James]

Who doesn't love the green mist?

[Sabretooth]

Who doesn't love the green mist?

an asshole

[Fuje Vise]

Who doesn't love the green mist?
I don't know. It's awesome. It's nice to see a beast like Tensei us it too. I think it should be a permanent gimmick for him.

[Sabretooth]

So Johnny is building up a stable of monsters to take down Cena. Brock Lesnar teaming with Lord Tensai is the greatest pairing ever. Two former rivals coming together to make wwe legitimate

[Sabretooth]

I don't know. It's awesome. It's nice to see a beast like Tensei us it too. I think it should be a permanent gimmick for him.
Your spelling his name wrong. It's Tensai not Tensei

[NovaRoad]

I'm not understanding how Kofi Kingston isn't a veteran. Four years in the WWE Proper doesn't constitute being a veteran?

[Sabretooth]

I'm not understanding how Kofi Kingston isn't a veteran. Four years in the WWE Proper doesn't constitute being a veteran?

No four years isn't a veteran at all

[Jay Dee]

Holy Crap RAW was AMAZING

By the way, i was actually there

The dark match was amazing!!!!! CM Punk vs Y2J for the WWE title

Punk won by DQ when Daniel Vryan interfered, then sheamus runs down, then cody rhodes, then big show, then del rio and finally with Randy Orton

Punk and Y2J leave, the other 6 brawl, end with finishers from sheamus, big show and orton to the heels

Absolutely Awesome. Best chant of the night was "Fish and Chips"

Definately going to the next RAW taping when its in the UK

[NovaRoad]

No four years isn't a veteran at all

How long does one need wrestle to be considered a veteran then? Is this just some arbitrary number you're pulling out of your ass?

All of the sites I've seen that put a time frame on how long one needs to wrestle to be considered a veteran put it at 5 years. Kofi's in his 7th year. Not a long-tenured veteran, but a veteran nontheless.

[Fuje Vise]

I have to agree with the kid. To me it should be at least 10 years before busting out terms like veteran and IMHO it takes more than even how long you've been with a company to earn that. Kofi is not a veteran in my eyes.


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[Fuji Vice]

Going by the five years = veteran theory, Kofi is a veteran. Personally I don't subscribe to that theory though. Dolph Ziggler's been in the company for 8 years and I don't consider him a veteran, so I can't consider Kofi one either.

[Fuje Vise]

Going by the five years = veteran theory, Kofi is a veteran. Personally I don't subscribe to that theory though. Dolph Ziggler's been in the company for 8 years and I don't consider him a veteran, so I can't consider Kofi one either.

Agreed. As much as I love Dolph I don't consider him a veteran either.


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[NovaRoad]

So what arbitrary criteria do these guys need to meet to be veterans in your eyes since the very definition of veteran isn't good enough?

[Fuji Vice]

So what arbitrary criteria do these guys need to meet to be veterans in your eyes since the very definition of veteran isn't good enough?

A veteran is defined as someone who has had a long service or experience in an occupation. I guess the issue here is what one defines "long" as in terms of years.

I tend to look at guys like Triple H and 'Taker as veterans, Cena and Orton as well, and here's my reason. I think in wrestling, a veteran is a performer that the company can rely on and trust to do everything, from working their own promos to calling their own matches. They are the "go to guys" so to speak, that can be relied on to deliver with little to no help from creative. That doesn't mean creative doesn't work with them, just that its not as important.

I don't think Kofi is a guy that WWE can rely on to do everything on his own with little to no help, ergo I don't consider him a veteran based on my criteria. I'm not saying my criteria is right, its just my personal view on the subject and obviously its very arbitrary, as you say.

Until we can define what "long" means, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

[Fuje Vise]

So what arbitrary criteria do these guys need to meet to be veterans in your eyes since the very definition of veteran isn't good enough?

Who said that was the official definition? But I like Fuji's answer best.

However if you like an actual number, 10 years at least in my eyes.


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[Booty Tang]

I agree with Nova on this one...with the high turn around at the E I think if u can last 4 to 5 years u have an understnading of the company and the business...I would def consider both Dolph and Kofi vets of the E at this point

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[Fuji Vice]

I agree with Nova on this one...with the high turn around at the E I think if u can last 4 to 5 years u have an understnading of the company and the business...I would def consider both Dolph and Kofi vets of the E at this point

To play devil's advocate here, wouldn't that mean Johnny Curtis is a veteran as well?

[Booty Tang]

Possibly but I was thinking main roster with constant tv exposure...but if u wanna be technical the term veteran is from the armed forces and how long does one have to be a soldier to be a veteran?

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[Fuji Vice]

Possibly but I was thinking main roster with constant tv exposure...but if u wanna be technical the term veteran is from the armed forces and how long does one have to be a soldier to be a veteran?


It doesn't just apply to the armed forces though, the term is just most closely associated with them. I looked it up and apparently in the armed forces, one only has to complete their training to be considered a veteran. However, that would then make the last guy who won Tough Enough a veteran, and that's obviously not the case. Again, as I said before, there's no right or wrong answer to this question and we'll be going around in circles until we can all come to an agreement as to what's considered "long" in terms of service.

[Fuje Vise]

I still stand by 10 years...

:bastard:


on top of pretty much what Fuji said.


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[Booty Tang]

i was kind of wondering why there was a debate going on about something that has no real technical definition

[Fuji Vice]

i was kind of wondering why there was a debate going on about something that has no real technical definition

I think its because it's slow around here right now and nobody has anything else to talk about. :lol:

[Fuji Vice]

i was kind of wondering why there was a debate going on about something that has no real technical definition

I think its because it's slow around here right now and nobody has anything else to talk about. :lol:

[Fuje Vise]

I don't know. Just don't feel Kofi is a veteran... :lol:

That and it gets me something to do to forget that there's work to be done... ;)


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[NovaRoad]

Yea lol, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And sorry if I came across douchey, not my intention :)

[Sabretooth]

Aww I missed this conversation. Fuck. Yeah I think a veteran has to be a go to guy who can put on great promos and matches with anyone. Someone that people will always pay to see